What about the 27th of February? What's he ever done to you? Well, he's been bloody mean to me, actually. He's been picking me on the playground and he said, ooh, why are you clever? And I went, no. No, you weren't. But you are now because it's the 27th of February. So if all the things are some are good, others bad, and yet others indifferent, the good are virtues and all that share in them. The bad are the vices and all that indulge them.

the indifferent line between virtue and vice and include wealth, health, life, death, pleasure and pain. So there's loads of ways we could take this and it's something I've been thinking about recently. So what is good and what is bad? Okay, so like there there actually isn't anything. I had an argument with a friend recently. I say argument, it was a healthy debate. They said, X on the news is really bad. I said, for who?

Okay. And he was like, well, no, no, do you not think that that's awful? said, well, yeah, it's, it's from my opinion, the life I've lived, it's probably bad. But if you were X or you were seeing that from a different side, you could possibly say that that was good. So it's about what is good and what is bad. And one of the things that gets thrown around in the world of sales is what makes a good salesperson. And a lot of the time I say salesperson, you might say gift of the gab.

You might say cheeky chops. You might say being able to talk the hind legs off a donkey. So some of those phrases that get thrown around for salespeople are extrovert. You can put them in a room and he's can be able to work the room and talk to anybody. Whereas me and you, we're probably like very different. You're probably, what would you say you are? Introverted extrovert? Yeah. I'm a bit of a duality between the two that I've got a social battery that tires. Yes. And I would say I'm.

I didn't realize this until we had quite a hard frank conversation once, but you were like, well, what would you rather? Would you rather spend some time at home or would you rather be at a wedding with a load of people? And I was like, well, can Zoe come? And you're like, yeah, was like, yeah, the wedding sounds well fun. I was like, everyone thinks like that. No, they don't. So I'm probably more extroverted. There is a debate on what makes a better salesperson extrovert or introverts. And typically extroverts will win the debate. But actually it's

There's something special about introverts when it comes to selling. Definitely. I had a very, very brief stint when I first started out in sales and recruitment. It didn't last very long. It wasn't for me. We can talk about another time. But it was a very typical recruitment company. It was very testosterone fueled. I think Wolf of Wall Street had just come out. There were extracurricular activities that go on in those sorts of businesses. But there was one guy in there. I've actually forgotten his name, but there was one guy in there.

who was at the top of the board consistently. He wasn't the loudest guy in the room. He wasn't the most outgoing. You didn't see him in the pub every night. And I said to someone, what, what is it about him that makes him so good? And they went, Oh, so he's called Steve. Oh, Steve, you can never tell that he's everyone's talking really loud and animatly and jumping around the office. He just sat really quietly going up to the board, really quietly putting a new number on the board, putting a new meat on the board.

and just getting the job done, but he was very, very introverted compared to everyone else in the office. And yet he was the best performer. feel like that is the secret to selling. it like, does it feel like you're selling? No, it feels like you're just there. You're just the therapist, the lazy river. It's the, it's like the, midwit meme that you see of like just the expert makes it feel like they're not doing anything and they're just there. don't, you don't need to put on a show.

and introverts probably more empathetic. Is that fair? Probably better listeners. and they're better at following systems and processes. know as a, an extrovert, probably what comes with that is a bit one day you can be on it and you can be top of the food chain. You'd be smashing it out. Then other days you're riding the lows. You're like, I'm not with it anymore. Like it's highs and lows. And that's probably what you get. Whereas introverts just plod along and they get the job done bit by bit.

extroverts, you might have a business where every meeting you get into is with four or five people sat there and you've got to engage them. And when you're engaging at the macro level, it becomes much about the story that you tell and the story that you put across and how you articulate it. introvert might be better on one on one dialogue. And as you say, becoming the therapist, whereas the extrovert might need to be the actor. Yeah. I've got to tell this story to five people. They've all got to get it. And I've got to put that across.

And that's a very different skill set. it's, always horses for courses. Salespeople can be great if they're in the right lane. And I think we don't talk enough about this, but some people that might not work in the SDR, hard, cold, cold calling, like you're hunting every single day. You might fail miserably and that's not for you, but you actually might go into a different role, which is like a sales engineer where you're like guiding people through processes and you're showcasing things and that might be perfect for you. So just if you are in sales and it doesn't feel like it's working, doesn't necessarily mean that sales isn't the career for you. It might mean that this isn't the right role for you as well. So it's a real, real interesting one. And I think you've got to also wear different hats. So if you are somebody that's better in one-on-one dialogue, what's that skill set? What's that gap?

How do I engage in a group of people? How do I get people to open up? And how can I work on that skillset of actually it's all about them? As you know, when we sit down and we have a conversation, me and you can be jumping around and shouting things and over talking, like talking over each other and getting really, really excited. But I know that when I get into a sales call, I shut up. And that's a switch I have to turn on and I have to sit back. That's probably why people are disappointed when they come to the calls, because they expect...

me to be this clown that's going do it then do the funny bit, do the song that you did on the podcast. So it's just about being the right version of you at the right time. Amazing. I've been Jack Frimston. I've been Zach Thompson. Remember you will die. Wicked Wicked Jungle is massive.