00:00 I'm used to dog walks on a Sunday, you're talking to gangsters and snipers and I'm thinking, am I a real man? I've got 9,000 numbers on here. 9,000 individual people. I've never missed a contact.

00:12 I was always good and I'm still good at looking at five moves ahead in business. Don't do email. I don't know a computer. There's no such thing as failure in my world. So running out of money, it was a conversation where I had to have my wife about sitting down and saying, look, no one's going to loan you money right now. They don't know what she's got. She's remortgaging our family house. Then we're risking our family house. And if people don't turn up on the day to give you cash to pay the... Like it was madness looking back at it now. It really is madness. I say to other entrepreneurs, take calculus.

00:42 That was no calculation. was zero calculation. That was crazy really.

00:52 Today, we're doing one of my favorite podcasts that we've ever done. And it's not for the reason you might expect. The reason this is one of my favorite podcasts is my esteemed colleague, Jack, is not.

01:05 visible for the entire episode. And you might ask yourself, why? Why is that? Well, we noticed 20 minutes into filming this episode that there was actually no camera on Jack. And we were already 20 minutes in and we thought we better roll with the punches. But I think you'll like what you see. You get plenty of eye candy without the annoying one. Jack, who have we got today? Today's guest is Dodge Woodall. We talk about going from a kid growing up in a pub to being an entrepreneur. And you know what? We don't need my face.

01:35 Cause we've got Dodge Woodall. You're going to love this one. It was a great episode. Lots of actionable insight. And I think the thing we should all be taking from Dodge is his mindset, his attitude and his entrepreneurship. So I hope you get something out of this one. Dodge, thanks for being here, mate. My pleasure. Very much looking forward to this, lads. Oh, massive, massive. I was just saying to you before we started, I'm used to dog walks on a Sunday. You're talking to gangsters and snipers and I'm thinking, am I a real man? That's where I know you're from. So to meet you in person, it's a real, real pleasure.

02:05 How do you feel about being the interviewee? feel... It's all very new to me. I've done a couple. See what you ask me anything and I'll give you a straight answer. yeah, very much looking forward. feels weird being on the other side a little bit. There's two of us. It's fine. well I'm going to steal your first question. Take us back to the start.

02:26 What's the journey and what were those early things that made you think there's a bit of an entrepreneurial thing going on there, maybe I should pursue this? Well, when I was growing up, the word entrepreneur was some geeky bloke looking in a suit, doing something geeky. know, entrepreneur wasn't a cool word like it is now. It's only got cool over the last sort of five, seven, eight years where everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. Like I've got professional footballer mates who've got side hustles on the back who want to be an entrepreneur. When I was growing up, I wanted to be a professional footballer. The footballers now want to be entrepreneurs.

02:56 entrepreneurs, do know what mean? So everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. Since the growth of social media, there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there who are trying to be entrepreneurs for the front, which...

03:15 as an old school entrepreneur I can see right through and I think a lot of people now as we're getting to 2024 and after 2020 and 2021 where more entrepreneurs come about, where there was a world of everyone was at home going, well might set up my own business. I think a lot of people now coming out of that and are realizing how hard entrepreneurship is. We're now 2024 going into 2025 in a few months and...

03:38 The reality of entrepreneurship is fucking hard. It really is. I don't know any different, so I can't compare. I've never had a job. I've never been employed. All I've done is set up businesses from a kid to where I am now. The business just got bigger and bigger as we got older. But I've just kept my feet on the ground with entrepreneurship. But growing up, there was entrepreneurs like Del Boy, of only fools and orcs. And then really Richard Branson, he come along and he was the one who created a brand. And that's really where it

04:07 all come from for me really. I haven't gone out and read books, I don't read books, I don't watch telly, I don't watch the news. I stay in my lane and do my thing. But the entrepreneurial spirit really came as a kid. Growing up and living above pubs in London, you get to see lots of stuff kids shouldn't see. You're around...

04:32 entrepreneurs, wheeler dealers, people selling things. There's nothing I couldn't get in the pub as a kid. There's nothing I couldn't order in the pub as a kid and it arrived the next day and I could sell it and whether, you get your hands on everything and anything. And I always learned back then how to buy something for a quid and sell it for two quid. Or I'd buy something for 10 and sell it for 30 quid. What, school or? Yeah, school was my shop. Yeah, school was my shop. And as I got older, the schools become more kids and the shop

05:02 got bigger and then I went to a sports university and there was 12,000 people on campus and my shop got even bigger. like, so yeah, I've sold lots of things over the years since I was kid. And what did growing up in the pub teach you about dealing with different personalities? Treat people with respect.

05:22 Everyone you meet, whether you're a cleaner, whether you're a chef, whether you're a cook, whether you're a CEO, whether you're professional sportsman, my old man and mum taught me some wonderful values in life. They gave me some wonderful values in life. You they weren't educated people, but they were know how to run a pound note. They were very respectful, they very honourable, very good manners, all the things that I teach my boy today. My old man grew up in East London.

05:49 tough upbringing in East London outside West Ham's football club. And my mum grew up in Manchester, a very tough part of Manchester with seven brothers and sisters and whatever. So they both met in the casino world in Mayfair. They're both croupiers, know, in the casinos. were? Yeah. And then they got into the pub world. All my uncles and aunties had pubs around London as well.

06:10 and then I sort took the baton on and sort of when I come through everything that I was doing as a kid and go to adulthood, I went into the nightclub world. I've become a promoter. And then I went to the festival world. So when you look back at the generations, five generations, my great granddad had boozers in East London. Then my granddad had off licenses.

06:32 And then my old man got into casinos and then pubs, restaurants, and I've taken on the nightclubs and festivals. So when you look back, it's all to do with alcohol, bringing people together, making people have a good laugh and putting smiles on people's faces. But doing it in a way where it's a win-win situation where the person paying you is happy and you're happy and you're just creating win-win situations. And that's one of the things I learned as a kid, creating win-win situations all the time, reading people, walking a room. I can read the room straight away.

07:02 I learned that as a kid. learned that now. I didn't know what I was learning as a kid, but when you're around adults the whole time, you are very aware of what's going on.

07:12 You know, there might be a police raid going on in the pub. You'd have doorman there. You'd have your old man throwing people out. You'll have people wheeling and dealing. You'll have people in fancy dress. You'll have people dancing. You'll have a tear up happening in the corner. You'll have people having a nice bite to eat and a beer. Then the atmosphere changes for different parts of the day. And we had a nightclub next door to us, next to my bedroom. it was madness. It was madness. promise you, lads, it was madness. But I didn't realise the madness. It's only when I stopped in the pandemic,

07:42 look back at that, look back, you know, as an entrepreneur, I'm constantly looking forward, what's next, what's next, what's next. And what I've learned, and this is something to take on board for anyone listening, is sometimes you just gotta stop. You have to stop, but I haven't stopped from a 10-year-old early on selling tickets to the nightclub next door.

08:01 you know, buying for quid, selling for two quid to the people in Dad's pub as a feeder pub. You know, it was a really cool pub, by the way. There was two floors. It was the place to be on the River Thames. It wasn't like some dirty old pub. It was a cool pub with beautiful people in there. And it was the feeder pub to the nightclub next door. You know, people would come in the pub at 7pm and leave at 10.30. People would drink from six, seven o'clock, eight o'clock, nine o'clock, 10 o'clock, 10.30. Then they would go to the nightclub next door of a thousand people. So that's when I saw the opportunity to get tickets from the nightclub next door.

08:31 sell those tickets, but these tickets get queue jump for everyone. I'd sell 20 tickets as a 10-year-old, buy them for a quid, sell them for two quid, create a women's situation where 20 people in Dad's Pub would get queue jump into the club next door. I'd get 20 quid as a 10-year-old. It was a lot of money. I'm talking in the 80s here. Mid-80s, was a lot of money back then. I felt a multimillionaire each weekend, each Saturday. But my life was very different. wasn't in normal upbringing. It was very much free

09:01 for all, do what you want, go to bed at midnight, every day of the week. My whole upbringing was about sport and...

09:11 and in a pound note because I was seeing it everywhere. My old man was a bodybuilder back in the day and he walked around the ground in his pocket. yeah, that was just life. was just life. Everything was back there cash, but he'd have a G in his pocket everywhere he went. You know, and you grow up seeing that and you grow up counting money with your old man. was races. He'd put a big wad on there, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go,

09:39 creating women's situations. Do you feel like those attributes then, is that like learnt behaviour or are there any like one-liners that your mum and dad said to you where it's like it's stuck with you and it's like that's the lesson and you kind of carry that forward in everything you do? it wasn't like I was, they were, there was one-liners, my mum always said to me everyone you meet is a contact. It stuck me for life. I've got 9,000 numbers on here.

10:07 9,000 individual people. I've never missed a contact.

10:12 never miss the contacts. If I meet someone, bam, da da, in the phone. You gotta remember before iPhones come along, you'd have the Nokia, you'd put all your numbers in there. Then when you wanted to change phone, had to take all your numbers out, write it in a big black book. And then when get a new phone, you gotta type more back in again. So that'd take like seven or eight days. But my point is at the age I'm at now, everyone I meet is a contact. So there's no one I can't get hold of in the UK. And if I can't get hold of that person, I'm two phone calls away finding out that person.

10:42 That was a lesson, everyone you meet is a contact and it's true. Manners make a man.

10:51 That sounds like a quite a cliche thing that kids got to have management at home. it's true. You open the door for people, you stand up, you shake someone's hand, you look them in the eye. If you do a deal, you do a deal. You shake their hand and once you shake their hand, that deal is done. In my eyes and the way I've been brought up and the way I've done business. You you look people in the eye, you have respect, you say, you please and thank yous. These are all simple things that I think we're losing these days. And from what I'm seeing over the last 15, 10, 15 years, I think that the country are losing a lot of these real valuable

11:21 real valuable things you know another thing just going back it's a funny you just triggered me here another thing my mom and dad gave me which was a huge gift as a kid was self-belief

11:36 The belief that you can do what you want to do. The belief you can achieve. The belief if you put your mind to it you can do it. And they're proper grafters.

11:46 And that rubbed off on me. You have to be a grafter. You can't expect to be a multimillionaire if you're not putting the time and energy into any business that you're doing. That's self-belief though. We were talking about this the other day. It's like, you think at points now, you look at like the next generation, do you think it can be a disadvantage? Like you've got young people walking around with self-belief coming out of their pockets and they're thinking, actually, you might have a bit too much self-belief where it's not even like confident anymore. It's on the line of arrogance.

12:16 you can go to the arrogant level. And going back to weird chatting, before we come on AirLeds, the arrogance level comes from the bullshit that we're seeing on social media, which is Instagram. And I'm new to Instagram, because I had to create this personal brand thing, which I felt very uncomfortable doing. the words, say the names, was maybe going, personal brand, what? But it is the best thing I have ever done in business.

12:46 Why? The amount of doors that have opened, the amount of leverage it gives you, the amount it raises your profile for people wanting to do business with you, for people wanting to reach out like you guys have done and gone, I know you haven't done many podcasts, Dodge, but we'd like to have a chat with you. I'm like, oh, that's nice. Do you know what I mean?

13:06 the amount of sponsors that come in and want to sponsor and partner with us for the podcast or for Bournemouth Sevens Festival or can you come on this TV show or can all these weird and wonderful things pop up because you've got this personal brand, I can't stand that name, but you've got an Instagram account which people know you're the real deal or you've got a YouTube channel and people know you're the real deal or you've got a Facebook.

13:32 people know you're the real deal, or on LinkedIn, they know you're the real deal because you're just speaking your voice. And I guess what I've learned over the last four years of going public was the easiest thing for me is just to speak my mind. Because I can't be anything else. I can't pretend to be anything else because I feel very uncomfortable. So I've just gone wallop, put it out there, people like it. Actually people are really liking this. How simple is this?

14:01 makes it lot easier to think then. Some week, like last week, someone said to me, oh you haven't posted much last week on LinkedIn. I said, I couldn't think of anything.

14:15 Yeah, you people say you must post five times a week. I couldn't think of anything. I was happy doing my thing with my boy and my wife and you just you can't force it. You know, it's only when I'm training then the ideas come to me. Yeah, I'm training. I'm feeling good. I'm hitting endorphins and dopamine coming out. Ping, ping, ping, And I'm eating clean and I feel good and fresh. That's one of my best ideas come out. And you still have to piss as well. You still have to boost. God, you feel great. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. Like I've partied.

14:45 So I know exactly, you You would have had to, you? You'd have to get involved sometimes. I up around party people. then I went into, you know, I spent 10 years in my twenties, six days a week in nightclubs. Four days a week earning money, taking the door money, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Then go back to about 12 nightclubs all around the UK.

15:08 and I'd go back to London in my 20s and I'd party Friday, Saturday, Sunday or Friday, Saturday in the clubs as well, partying, and recover Sunday. That went on for six, but remember when you're working, you're not partying. When you're working in the club on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, you're straight.

15:24 There's a lot of money going around. You've to be careful wherever the doorman. You've to be aware when you leave the nightclub with thousands of pounds on you that someone has a clock to you and tries to rob you or whatever it may be. So when you had that set up there, was the... navigating the dodgier characters that might come in, was there a trick to... do you get them on the side? Do you let them know, I know what's going on? Do you leave them to it? What's the trick to keeping everyone sweet and happy?

15:54 I guess from being where we grew up and who dad was and who we were around and stuff, was a kind of reputation would follow you a little bit. Right. That helped. Yeah. Wherever you were. So if you were up in Manchester or Leeds or Leicester or in other cities, that would help. But you would always bung the head doorman. I'd always look after the head doorman with cash.

16:21 because he's on the clicker, he's protecting the night, he's earning double from me than what he's earning from the club that night. You always got to keep your wits about you because you are carrying a lot of money around in the late 90s and 2000s, that tenure period, there's a lot of money going around. And you can't, you're bringing the money back down to London on Thursdays, you're sleeping in hotels Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night, and then driving everything back Thursday, you can't be in 12 nightclubs every week. Do you know what I mean? So you've got family and friends, other night,

16:51 of clubs collecting the money and then you carrying bags of it as well, bringing it back down on a Thursday night, Friday morning to London. You know, that went on and yeah, there were some times when nothing that I remember going, oh my God, that was seriously, seriously dangerous. I was quite...

17:12 I was quite not blasé, I was very aware of what could happen.

17:19 So I was always thinking five moves ahead as you leave the club. What's going on? Where'd you party car? What'd you do? Where'd you put the money? Did bring the money to hotel with you that night? Did you keep it in the back? Did boot your trunk? What happens the following night? Where'd you like? You're very aware of what's going on. That was great fun. How did you go from so club promoter? so then how did you end up at 12 nightclub? What was the journey? So.

17:43 I went to sports university. Sport was my whole life growing up. I was no good at school in lessons. I was always disruptive and make people laugh. And I wasn't disruptive in a horrible way.

17:55 love making people laugh and have fun. My mum always said to me, dad always said me, make sure we have fun. It wasn't like going and getting A grades at English and chemistry, but I didn't have a clue. was, because I was around adults the whole time, I knew that all these different lessons were going to do me no good in my life. You know, I got the buzz of earning money from a young age, from the age of 10, 11, 12. The money just got bigger and bigger, whatever I was doing, buying and selling or whatever I was doing. And it got to the age where I got into Loughborough Sports University. I didn't do A levels.

18:25 So I got in through the back door. I got in there and I didn't have a clue what was going on. In terms of you had to sit in a lesson, you had to write notes, regurgitate what he was telling you. I was going in there with no pen and paper. I literally didn't have a clue what was going on. But I knew I was up there to play sport and all I was thinking is 12,000 students here. And my mum always told me as a kid, pound a man. Everywhere you go, pound a man.

18:54 So with the pound amount as a 10 year old selling tickets nightclub next door, do remember? And then 10 years later, obviously it got bigger and bigger, but actually a pound amount, went to the local nightclub in my final year of uni and said, you're charging two pound for all these students to come to your club. How about we charge three quid, I keep a pound, you keep two quid, and I'll get more students in your nightclub. And he agreed to it. So I was earning, my final year at Loughborough, every single Wednesday I was earning 2000 pounds cash a week.

19:23 in Loughborough and every single Tuesday in my club in Wandsworth in London I had a thousand pounds so every week I was earning three grand cash for that last student year every Tuesday and Wednesday. This is 1999 yeah it was mega it was like you hit the jackpot but that did come about because my mum as a kid said make sure you own a pound of man yeah yeah pound of man pound of man

19:48 So then you have the self-belief and the confidence to go to the light club and let's do a pound, he pound, he earned two quid. He was winning and it was a women's situation. The students were winning because we opened up there. There was a pool room next door and I said to the club, look, you're getting a thousand people here every Wednesday.

20:03 So I was walking into a grand straight away. I said, why don't you knock that pool room through and make that a room two to a nightclub and then we can get the capacity to 2000. And they did that. They invested the money and we got up to 2000 every single week. So the club were happy. They were taking another 10, 15 grand on the bar plus another grand, another two grand on the door because it was a bigger capacity. And I was happy because I was getting two grand a week and the students are happy because I was putting those of entertainment on and getting more students there and looking after the sports captains and looking after people, queue jumps and

20:33 It just was a win-win situation. was a beautiful place to be because it gave me this wonderful confidence that when I finished my degree, right, how do I scale this business up? You everyone these days is talking about scaling businesses. That wasn't really anything spoken about back then. But I was thinking, how do I scale this business up? How do I get more nightclubs? And we built it to three nightclubs the following year.

21:00 and the following year it went to six night clubs, and the following year it went to 12 night clubs. that's how we grew the business. Rapid as well, rapid growth. Rapid growth, really low overheads. Me and my best mate Chris who I grew up with as a kid, mobile phone, hundreds of thousands of flyers in each city, hundreds of posters being put up all over lampposts in every city, because there was no social media. There was nothing.

21:28 It was you fly it and you posted and you grafted and you hand out flyers, you put them on everyone's cars, you put them on everyone's doors in halls of residence. You hand out flyers when people are going into nightclubs, making sure they put in their back pockets or leave at nightclub. It was proper graft. But everyone I knew, everyone I saw, you had five seconds to sell them to come into your nightclub rather than going into that nightclub on the streets.

21:50 So I was on the streets for 10 years doing this. You learn your trade. You know, I've had millions of people, I've to millions of people. You've got five seconds to turn a group of 10 lads. Why you going to that nightclub and you can't this one? Are you in boys? Get the first one in. Follow me, I'll take you to the front. And all of sudden, I'm thinking three quid ahead. Three quid, three quid, three quid, three quid. You know, so, it doesn't sound a lot three quid, but you get 2,000 people in a nightclub every week.

22:16 or 1,000 people in a nightclub every week, it's not hard to work out the sums. The business model back then was, in my final year, was they already had a packed night. So then I did the pound a man thing. But when I scaled the business up, I'd go to nightclubs that were closed on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday in all the major cities.

22:38 and I'll say to the nightclub, look, you're closed, how about you open it up, you pay for the security, you pay for the bar stuff, you take all the bar money. I'll pack the place out, I'll take all the door money. And they agreed to it. So for them, they're opening up and getting 20 grand.

22:56 because they think happy days, he's getting all these students in here. For me, it's about grafting now, building up teams of people that we're promoting every day, flyering, postering, finding out the sports captains, finding out the main faces, looking after them, special cards and cue jump and whatever. And then it just generates this whole snowball effect. And before you know it, that's when a bit of trouble starts, in fact. You mentioned that, yeah. Yeah, that's when trouble starts because...

23:26 I used to love going into clubs. Me and my pal Chris were really ballsy back then. He's a really ballsy character. We're best mates, like brothers, since the age of four. Still best mates and brothers now. And we really didn't really care in our twenties. So we'd go into a city, there'd be a club there with 1,500 people in that club, and that club's closed. We'd get that club.

23:54 and we get everyone out of that 1500 people in that club within four weeks, that club will end up closing down. We've got everyone. But by that club closing down, you've pissed off the manager. You've pissed off all the security, because they then got a job midweek, which was a nice thing for them. then you had to deal with...

24:12 a bit of repercussion from that. nothing majors. And they knew it was you? Yeah, we were blatant. We accused of doing it, flying around. Honestly, were looking back now. I wouldn't do it now, but when you're in your 20s and you're thinking you can earn two or three grand per club, you're thinking, I don't care.

24:33 I don't care. What we were doing, we were putting on really good entertainment and we created a brand as well which no one was doing in year 2000. created, don't if you know, websites in 2000 when they started the dot com. then, do know the brand Pasha in Ibay? know the cherry logo.

24:53 We nicked that, or we borrowed that. We that. We gave it back. We borrowed that logo and tweaked it little bit, thinking, God, we're going to get done here, but we didn't care. So we brought that logo the past year. We created a brand, a student brand called popyacherry.com. Nice. And that's how we did it. So we had all these die cut flyers with cherries. We'd do lineups. We'd do four week lineups on there with, back then it was like, the influencer back then.

25:21 which we jumped on were people like the Big Brother TV program. They were the original influencers. They'd be on the TV program and the whole country would be going mad for these Big Brother characters. When they come out of the house, we'd put them on. And then we'd do fancy dress nights and then we'd do a DJ night. So we'd have four week line up where the other clubs were just opening the doors and doing cheap drinks. We were going, in our club, we doing cheap drinks, double vodka Red Bulls, two quid or a quid on some nights before 11 o'clock. Great entertainment. And they were coming to a brand called

25:51 where we'd get out the whole club in these big glitter cherries, drapes red everywhere. We'd have girls on the front door giving out free cherry vodka shots in boob tubes and hot pants. We just took it to a whole new level, you know?

26:09 And that was the big point for me because I went to Ibiza in 93 and I grew up in night clubs and pubs as we spoke about. in 93 I went to Ibiza and I was like, fuck.

26:22 This is how you do it properly. This is all about the experience. This is about the colour. This is about the entertainment. about making the customers buzz in to come to your club. I saw everything. I was like, I need a piece of that. I really need a piece of that. So that's where the whole thing, I came back and we did this for 10 years. we ended up doing 1,500 nightclub parties in 10 years. Across 40 cities and nightclubs. From what I know about you, you don't come across as like a flashback.

26:52 bloke so obviously like when you were doing well and it was like those early days is what what were you doing with your money stashing it cashing like it was trying to save up I was trying to save up

27:05 And I partied as well, but you you weren't a lot more than you were spending. And I was very, I wasn't flash going out partying. It wasn't like tables and champagne and I went into any of all of that. But we were back in the clubbing days. We were all clubbing. That was our thing. You would go clubbing Friday and Saturday. You know, people would gear up back in the, the, in the nineties and the noughties. It was all about what clubs you're going to. You know, you would jump into one club and then you'd come out of another club and you end up in a cab, go back

27:35 Yeah, that's what we did. Did you know when you were doing it like the bigger picture like where you are now did you know that you wanted to do more or did you say did when you were in it did you feel like this is life? I'm gonna be doing this till I'm 80. Yeah, really good question because I checked my pal the other day about this and what I've learned as an adult I mean your 20s you're not an adult. You know you were you were boisterous

28:03 You thought you were invincible. You were having a laugh. Everything was about having a laugh. Every day was about having a laugh. Every single day. Even now. Every day is about having a laugh and enjoying it. But back then, you thought you'd be doing this rest of your life. Standing on the front door.

28:21 A thousand people queuing up in your club, people wanting to queue, just bringing them around, looking after them, giving them VIP cards, they can get in the VIP. I thought I'd be doing that for, we're not 20 as well, but we're doing this one for 50. And that's just amazing because it was such good money. And it was, and we found it, we found it, we found it naturally easy. And that's not in an overconfident way because we're grafters.

28:51 We didn't care going to bed at 3 4 in the morning. We didn't care about...

28:57 We didn't care really. We promoted hard. In every city went to, we promoted hard. And the harder we promoted, the more buzz we got. And the harder we promoted, the more people would get, and the more people would get, the more money we would get. And it just was this amazing...

29:15 Circle cycle that were just going on and going back to your point Yeah, we thought we'd be doing to a 50 60 but what I've learned as an adult is not all good things last Hmm, and that's why you got to be aware in business that you are building a motor around yourself Building a business and don't just stick to one business build tool build three

29:34 But I tell you what, in our 20s we were partying, we were having a laugh. Everything was about having a laugh. know, some of the silly things we were doing and it got caught up the other day. If we had a nightclub...

29:48 And the dorm, we always got on well with Dorman. Always got on well, because I grew up with Dorman. I grew up with bouncers, I grew up with lots of naughty people. I just, I've got, that's probably why the podcast is doing so well, because it's just having wicked chats with people, like-minded people that I grew up with and knew. But there were funny times, like in one city, I won't mention the nightclub, but there was one city that we went and, they knew we were poaching their customers.

30:17 and they were like, we're going to get you to this. So we went up there, a load of water bombs. And we water bombed the front door, the doorman. We thought it was funny, but it turned into something, what grew out, what went out a little bit out of control.

30:30 But again, that's just one point. It was funny because we knew the doorman there, but then they came down and Chris was driving the car and we got chased down the street and was, my legs rang at the back of the car, I'd stived in the window of 30 mile an hour with all doormen chasing you. And then we got back down to our door and our doorman knew it was funny. And then they come down and one of had a van and they just brought out loads of fire extinguishers. went past the door, fire extinguishers for everyone. And then the two managers got involved and it got out of hand. And it was really funny looking back on

31:01 That stuff sells though, doesn't it? I've never told you that story in my life by the way, that just popped up the other day. yeah, was... Yeah, in fact there's loads of these funny stories that actually come into my mind now. But it was all done in good humour. It wasn't like...

31:20 It wasn't nasty ever, but there was an underbelly of it because you're dealing with people's livelihoods and money. know what I mean? But we didn't care because we're thinking if we can just get all those people into our nightclub and our nightclub closed down, we're away for the whole student year, which is 30 weeks. But then what happened was, these are really good chats in fact, my mind's going like that. And then what happened was,

31:46 you would close one nightclub down and the York nightclub would be packed. That nightclub would come and approach you and say, do you want another night? I'd say, we'd say, what are you thinking? They'd say, what happens if we take a Monday and yours is a Wednesday and then you're not competing. So then we ended up having two nights in all the cities which brought other problems because you had a sort of monopoly of that town or city.

32:15 which was great, but then the managers would go, why are you getting 2,000 on a Wednesday and you're only getting 1,500 on a Monday and ours? So it created this other little vibe that was going on.

32:27 It's great for us because we get 1500 at three quid head and 1500 or 2000 people at three quid head in the bigger, do know what mean? Yeah, you're winning and it's like well, you're in it. I think too many like businesses and entrepreneurs take it so seriously. Yeah. Like and it's just like that no, can't, I have to like be up for 18 hours grafting and not have any fun. And that's like the sign of a good entrepreneur. It's just like, business is one of those things that it's like, it's all part of life.

32:55 So I guess what happened when you're doing this, you're smashing it, then what happened for you to say, there's a change. I'm at a point in my life now where I want something a bit different.

33:09 I was always good and I'm still good at looking at five moves ahead in business. I can see what's coming. I don't know that was something for I've grown as a kid. think it's just, I guess I've been in this world for 30 odd years now and understanding, you know, and all I've done is business. Even my hobbies are business. I love business. I love business. I love entrepreneurship. I love people.

33:37 I love putting smiles on people's faces, I love earning money, I love creating women's situations and I'm always thinking five moves ahead in business. What happens if, what happens if, because you've got to remember everyone's out, everyone is out, if you're doing well in business, there's a certain percentage of people who really happy for you and there's a certain percentage of people who deep down who aren't happy for you.

34:02 but on the front they're happy for you. But deep down they're not happy for you. And anyone in business begs to differ that. It's just the way of life. People aren't always happy for you in this country. And I think in 2000 and we were, I was in it in 99, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, five. And then the smoking ban came in.

34:28 There was a smoking ban, you're smoking nightclubs. And it just think of fags and that's just the way life was. all of sudden the smoking ban come in. And all of sudden I started seeing people have to go outside the nightclub to have a fag. And everyone used to, there was a lot of smokers back then. I is changing the vibe a little bit. Then the late license come in. It means that all the feeder pubs and bars before they all come out of their bars and go to your nightclub, were holding people in there until one o'clock or two o'clock in the morning now. And then you could sense more people being held in the bars. It made sense for the bar owners to say,

34:57 I'd rather keep these people drinking here for another two, three hours rather than go to your nightclub. And then those bars will put little mini dance floors in there. And then people will go, should I stay in the bar rather than paying three or four quid to go to the nightclub? So these little things were changing. So I was very aware of what was going on. Very, very aware for the last two years before I left the game. And then in 2008, I just left the game. I left the nightclub world.

35:23 And the next step really for most promoters back then lads was if you're a good promoter, we were the pioneers at the time of what we were doing. And as we were doing it, more and more people seeing the success of what we were doing and going for this jump on this. Again, there was no social media.

35:39 It was all flyers and posters. So if you wanted to jump into this game, you have to be a grafter. You know, there's no life balance, no work life balance. There still is, if you want to be successful, there really isn't unless you, it only happens once you're successful. So don't listen to the people who are successful saying there's always work life balance, that's bullshit. You've got to graft. You've got to graft, you've got to put the hours in, you've got to graft, you've got to get up and put in a proper shift.

36:08 seven days a week. And even when you're on a Sunday, you're thinking about business. Even when you're at the dinner table, you're talking about business. I'm lucky I'm in a business that's exciting. So I'd hate to be in a business that was piss boring, you know? So it's just a way of life for me, business. But going back to your question, I sensed all these things happening. And then 2008, I was like out. But most promoters back then would go either go and buy a nightclub or they'd buy a pub.

36:37 or a bar. And there was a certain amount of promoters who would then go, I want to get into the festival world. And that was the route I took. I'm so glad I took it. Did anything spark that? Did you see any of your mates or was there anybody that you looked up to and thought, he's done it, I'm 10 times smarter than him, I can definitely do that? No, really. Not really, I just knew I was a good promoter. A good promoter and I knew how to put on...

37:06 wicked music to make people have a brilliant time. And I knew how to promote. But when you go in the festival world, it's very, very different. Because as a promoter of nightclubs, you're going in, everything's there. Nightclubs there, security's there, the bar's there, the toilet's there, the DJ booth is there, everything is there, the light in, electricity, everything is there. When you go into a festival, I'm just hiring 67 acres of green land.

37:33 Yeah, you know, think about it. didn't think about all the shit that I know now. In year one, I didn't really. Yeah, yeah, I ran out of money in year one for the first festival, six months prior to opening the doors. That's how naive I was. What did you do? Well, back then in 2008, the whole world was collapsing. You know, what they call the world financial crisis or whatever was going on.

38:03 But I saw that as an opportunity, as I did in 2001 when the plane crashes, when I saw it as an opportunity to create a business, the world we got into. And in 2008, I saw an opportunity to create two businesses. And the world was going on now, and in 2000, I created two businesses. That's all 2020 in the pandemic. So every time there's a crisis, never waste a good crisis, lads. Honestly, because that's where the opportunities are. So running out of money, it was a conversation.

38:33 where I had to have my wife about sitting down saying, look, the only option we've got, because no one's going to loan you money right now, the only option you've got is remortgaging our family house. Try having that conversation. Yeah. Yeah. And how did it go? What, the conversation? The conversation. Yeah, the conversation was a, a, the conversation was a cards on the table conversation. Yeah.

39:03 My wife, who it was our anniversary yesterday for 16 years. Congrats. Yeah, from 2008 after that conversation. We got married that year. We got married two weeks after the first festival, by the way, which again, wow. then put a wedding on two weeks later, three weeks later. It's a madness to do that. But anyway, yeah, the conversation, was like, Fleur, like, we're either walk away from underground because everyone wanted their money upfront. I was thinking in my...

39:30 being really naive, we're talking 17 years ago, I was thinking, well, I'm gonna get all the money enough festival, I'm not gonna pay everyone. All of a sudden, in January before the festival in May, everyone wanted the money, so we're like, no, no, we'll pay you off. So we paid all the money and there was still a shed load of bills to come in. I was thinking it was gonna cost roughly 100 grand, but it ended up costing 300 grand. And I didn't know that until we got to the festival.

39:59 Anyway, at the conversation with Flo, was like, the only option we've got is to remortgage the house. And she's not a risk taker. And I love risk. And back then I was quite ballsy.

40:12 And she's a beautiful woman who grew up in Wales in the hills and everything's just nice, you know? Just peace and whatever.

40:26 We've been only together for sort of five years before that. She's about to marry a promoter who loves risk. So it was was like, you know, two and I guess that's why it works. Yeah, yeah. She arranged me in and da Anyways, we had this conversation, deep conversation, and she was like, I'll just fully back you. But which is unbelievable of her to do that. But I hope you don't mind me saying it, but she was crying in bed five nights a week before we went to sleep.

40:54 about the risk we've just taken because no one would buy with a credit card back then tickets. Back then it was all flying and postering. Back then we're risking our family house and if people don't turn up on the date to give you cash to pay the, like it was like it was, it's madness looking back at it now. It really is madness and I say to a lot of people though, I'll say to other entrepreneurs take calculated risk, that was no calculation. That was zero calculation. That was.

41:23 crazy really. Did that first year, did you get the sigh of relief of, oh it's worked in year one? Yeah I got the feeling, oh my god people are turned up.

41:33 because you build a festival site. You you've got to the marquees, you've got to up the showers, the toilets, fencing, the DJs, the security, the police, the fire brigade, the airports next door, you're dealing with them. And I had no staff. So I was juggling all of this. had one, like Fleur left her job at JP Morgan just to help out to do some emails. I didn't do emails, I don't use a computer. it was like, it took on way too much. It took on way too much. But I was selling the dream of a sport and music

42:04 I was putting on flyers, Sky TV are gonna be there. I was putting on flyers that, I was putting so much pressure on myself that I had to make it work and I had to, like going back to thinking, if I'm saying I'm do something, I'll do it. And I printed it all and said I was gonna do all this stuff. was like, shit, I'm gonna have to do all this. You know, I said Sky TV, it's why sports are gonna there. said the BBC are gonna be, I made all this stuff up. do you know what mean? Like, all this entertainment, but I had to follow through and I followed through.

42:33 and I got them there. When you're in desperate times, you do stuff to make shit happen. So you were, I'm gonna say it and I'll make it happen? I've committed. I've shook hands. I've committed this is gonna happen. The idea came about, going back to your question, did I have a mentor? I had no mentor. I had no one to say.

42:56 what your thoughts on this? was just like, I was just on this tunnel vision of I'm gonna be a promoter, I'm gonna put on a party in a field here. Yeah. Yeah.

43:09 Yeah. Amazing. So how many years we are now? We just completed year 17 last month. Year 17. Yeah. Wow. And it's the best gamble I've taken in my life. What was it like coming, you probably asked this a thousand times, but coming out of the pandemic and going at it again, did it feel like you were starting all over again? I loved it. Did you? I loved the pandemic. Go on, tell us. Not for the reasons of what, you know, I'm talking about, the pandemic for...

43:37 Not with all the naughtiness went on and people passing away and loved ones not being able to see, that I didn't like about it. But I loved the pandemic because I was like, I can start creating a new business here, what can I do? It gave me time, it allowed me to stop. It allowed me to stop.

43:56 It allowed me to stop traveling because we like traveling. Going back to things, we're not flash at all, but we love our holidays. We love to travel. We love to eat good food. We like to enjoy long lunches with mates and eat good food. know, the simple things in life. There are things. I'm not into multi-colored fast cars and not into diamond watches and all that stuff.

44:26 But yeah, I enjoyed the pandemic because it allowed. One, I lost a shitload of money. I lost a million quid. And I went crying about it. And I don't know why.

44:43 because that hurt the pocket. But my main thing was how can I keep my team together? Because as an entrepreneur, it's not just about you. People think it is about you. And sometimes entrepreneurs think it is just about them. But you won't be able to do all the stuff you do without a team around you. And I was very good at an early, early stage in the festival world.

45:10 Going from the transition from a nightclub world to the festival world, the nightclub world, was me, best mate, mobile. When go into the festival world, you're becoming more, you have to have offices, you have to have more procedures in place, you have to build teams of people who are...

45:31 fully employed by the limited company and fully employed and do you know what I'm coming from? had to go, you had to, if you were taking this thing seriously, you had to buy the book, had to go, but yeah, it was more, you had to have more structure. But I found that for the first two years we were working out the garage, couldn't afford office, couldn't afford it. We didn't know what was going on with this thing.

45:56 Bournemouth 7th Festival. I know what was going on, what was growing, how it was growing, who, what, when, what finances were coming in, did we break even, are we losing money, are we going to earn money? We didn't know. It was all the unknown, which I love as well. Weirdly. There's a theme going on here. I've spotted something. What was the original question? We were talking about the pandemic.

46:20 you know, someone who runs a festival coming out of it, did it feel like starting all over again? And you said, oh, no, I loved the pandemic. Yeah, I loved the pandemic. Yeah, exactly. Okay, yeah. So as an entrepreneur, I was very good at letting go. A lot of entrepreneurs and business owners and startups don't like to let go. They want control. Yeah, of course. But I was very quick to let control go and get the right people around me. And one of my strengths, I've got a lot of...

46:48 I'm not good at a lot of things, but there's a lot of things that I'm good at and I just home in on that. And all the shit that I don't like and I'm no good at, someone else take it. I don't want to be in that. I don't want to be sitting there writing emails. I don't do email. I don't know the computer. I run all my business off that, off my mobile, like I saying earlier, with the contacts and I run everything off WhatsApp. I have an email address. If an email comes in.

47:17 or I'll reply to my mobile and say pick up the phone, let's have a chat.

47:22 Much easier. I don't know why people don't do that. Yeah. Anyone listening out there, I don't know why you're not doing that. It's a lot easier to pick up the phone, do a deal over the phone and meet them face to face and get everything done, sped up or do WhatsApp and have a double tick. You know they've read it. They know you've read it. There's no hiding behind emails and making up a bullshit thing that, oh, so is it my spam or playing mind games that you don't reply to them in four days because let them sweat. not into any that. Yeah. You know what mean? If you're listening out there, get away from that because you're just doing yourself no favors. And that works for me and it still works for me. But I was very good at letting go.

47:52 and giving responsibility to my team around me and empowering people. That's another strength of mine. I like to empower people, make them feel good, make them feel that it's okay to make a mistake, make them feel that...

48:07 will make you the best in the country at what you do, whether you're a graphic designer, whether you're marketing, whether you're operations, whether you're an event manager, wherever you are, I'll go out my way to make you the best in the country. And what that breeds, team. And it breeds people making people feel good about themselves. Make them excited to come to work, you know?

48:31 So I was very good at letting control go and build a team around me. My other strength is hiring. I'm a really good hiring, a quick hirer. I do it very differently. Someone asked me the other day, but how do you hire? I was like, he wanted me to film this corporate for seven. You don't want me on this show because if I tell you the way I hired, it might not be good for your students or whatever, but it's a very simple way, way I hire, you know? And I love hiring people. Again, I love people. So if I spot something in someone, I'll be in a restaurant.

49:01 A girl might come over and serve and I see something about her I'm like, you've this thing about you, you're a people's person. What are you doing? What's your future? Well I'm working in a restaurant at the moment. Here's my mobile and come and have a chat. Bam, bam bam bam bam. Anyone who works in restaurants and bars, in my opinion, are a cut above.

49:18 Is that like a gut feeling thing then? Say I walked in for an interview, what are you looking for? What's someone got to bring? Or is it that kind of shiny X Factor that you can't really put into words? you've got something about you. A tentative, bang on the ball, sharp, good conversation, look in the eyes. All these things I'm spotting in people, mannerisms.

49:40 You know, are they making you feel good while you're in a restaurant or a bar? Simple stuff. Everyone else, we can teach them. Simple stuff. I don't care if you got a degree or not. In fact, I prefer it if you didn't have a degree and you're hungry because some people are entitled. That's my biggest bugbear. People are entitled. Entitlement is my biggest bugbear of people. I'll tell you this is interesting. is funny. The way I hire, I watch it on Instagram.

50:09 put up my stories, make it cool. If you're looking for something, drop me a DM. Or I put it on LinkedIn. All of sudden, I might get 20 or people come through on Instagram. And I was to say, leave three bullet points on why you think it'd be great for this job. I can tell someone how organized they are and how sharp they are and hungry are just in that little snippet that they send me.

50:30 If it's bullet pointed and they're funny in there and there's some humor and they're on the ball and it's written nicely compared to someone who doesn't say, hi, dodge, just saw your message. I'd love this opportunity. I think, okay, I want this, but someone just put three bullet points with no thought process in there. Ignore. Yeah. Simple, simple things. If someone's going out of their way and really you can tell they're hungry, then you give them your mobile number. I'm not worried about people that have my mobile number. So drop me a WhatsApp. They drop me a WhatsApp within.

50:56 God knows how quickly, bam, I pick up the phone speak to them, catch them off guard. Because then you know what they're about. And then all of sudden, I like that person, get in, come and have a chat tomorrow, really like you, got another person, you got the job, following time, get in, bam, let's go with it. Because it's about character. It's all about character business. It's all about, if you're building a business about character, people want to do business with people. Exactly. Our first hire that we ever hired, he came into the interview and he said, I'm going to do something different that no one's probably done to you today. I've written you a rap.

51:26 He'd like, what? I'm gonna do it for you. And he rapped about why he would want the job, because he'd just done a music degree. Now, out of everyone, how memorable is he gonna be compared to everyone else? Completely. And as soon as he walked out, we said straight away, we're gonna have to hire him. But it's a great story. And that story, again, then goes onto LinkedIn, then goes onto Instagram. Tell that story, because then people will rate you guys for hiring someone because of that, and your profile of your business goes through the roof.

51:54 And that's what happens with us. Yeah, exactly. And always be really kind to people who leave. lot of bosses are oh, let's make their life hell for the last one. Be super kind, be nice to these people. They're going remember you for life. They're going to go and meet a hundred people in their new business, hundred people in next business. They're going to be talking about you, God, he was a good boss. He was nice. And you've only got in business, only thing you've got is your reputation. If you say you're to do something, do it. You've only got your reputation of being kind.

52:22 Yeah, I totally agree. think we've had our fair share of twat bosses that makes you, you've got that voice in the back of your head going, am I being a sound boss? Yeah. You don't always get it right. No one does, but you're always kind of forward thinking. Would you say you're an optimist, A thousand percent. Through and through. A thousand percent. That P word's not even in my vocabulary.

52:45 Like pessimists, like pessimists, like why do you want that? Optimism brings beautiful light in your day. You want to be around lucky people. I'm a lucky person to live in our country, be brought up where we're brought up, to have businesses, to be in here today. We're lucky, know? Hang around lucky people because you'll be lucky as well. But definitely optimism, for sure.

53:07 Because it felt like even when you were telling that story where I had to remortgage my house, it felt like you were never going to lose. Like there was always that bet of like, I'm going to make it happen. we kind of say it's like, we'll find a way to make it work because we always do. We've got so much evidence. So I imagine that if you looked at your career through a different lens, it'd be like, oh, this was hard and this was bad and stuff. But it doesn't, you just feel happier. I feel like that's why you've been successful. There's no such thing as failure in my world.

53:38 my vocabulary again. Failure, failure, what? Just keep tweaking. Keep tweaking, keep tweaking. You can't get failure then. You only fail when you actually stop a business. Go, that's fucked. Just keep tweaking everything. Find a way. I can't be beaten. No one will outgraph me. No one will outwork me.

53:58 And as you grow in business, people will always come and indent you, kick you, try to compete against you, try to eat away at your business. You know, we're 25, odd years in of living and breathing everything we do, whether it's a...

54:18 the nightclub world, whether it's only in a festival, whether it's only in a sports brand that we built and sold, whether it's having a podcast that we started in the pandemic, whether it's having an online events course that we built in a pandemic because we saw everyone was leaving the events industry so we can get, we created a course that you can do in three months where I bought 40 of the world's leading industry experts in to film like masterclass. So we're building businesses and we're just launching a new business in a few months. I came up with an idea last week.

54:48 which is about entrepreneurship, build an online course for entrepreneurs, teaching them the journey you're gonna go on as an entrepreneur or startup, because no one knows. No one talks entrepreneurship or business at GCSE. No one teaches at A level. And you go and do a degree, I've seen the degree, it's pony. I wouldn't give you, that's 27 grand for that. Are you joking me? Who signed that off? A business degree?

55:14 And you've spent £27,000 on that. And the people around you have got to take responsibility. You know, as a dad, I wouldn't let my kid spend £27,750, to be precise, on a degree in business. It's a better degree than all the other ones, don't get me wrong, but... And then you're going to leave £50,000 worth of debt. £50,000 before you go into the big wide world.

55:41 and you've got a degree and my mate hasn't got a degree and you're still on the same salary pretty much as he is. That's not good business. No. You're 50 grams worth of debt. You're going to have that debt until you retire.

55:55 and you're gonna be paying two, three, 400 quid a month until you retire and they're gonna tweak the interest rates, you're gonna be paying more and more and it's not out of your control. And you're the age of 18, 19, 20, 21, not having a clue about debt, not having a clue about repayment, not having a clue about interest rates. You don't know, you're fresh off the boat. You're straight out of school, Dad. Mum and Dad went to uni in late 90s and they said it was amazing, it was amazing because you'd have to pay for it. Do you know I mean? It was amazing because it was a pound of pine. It was amazing because you're

56:25 rent was 50 quid a week. But everything's boomed up. You're gonna be. Yeah, I can speak about this for hours. I'm a strong believer that, you know, the online education, sorry, the education you get at universities these days, unless you're a lawyer, a vet, or a doctor, or one of those ones where you kind of need it, you know, you need it. There's loads of online courses out there you can do in your underpants at home and learn more than you what you want in your own time. There's so much on YouTube you can learn.

56:55 But anyway, my new business that I was talking about is to teach entrepreneurs the journey you're gonna go in. You the journey of you thinking of an idea, when you're with your mate over having a few beers, you've got an idea. My boss is a knob and I don't like him. We've got to get out of this, why don't we set up our own business? Because that's normally what happens. Or if you're there, sitting there going, you know, the key to entrepreneurship for me is solving problems. Can you solve a problem? What problem can you solve? Just look for problems.

57:25 Look for businesses that are already doing something, do your homework on that business, find out their customer service isn't all that, or they don't get back to you quick enough, copy that business and make your service amazing and make sure you get back to it and make sure you can promote on social media. You got business. Yeah. It's really simple. But people want to have that unicorn idea.

57:48 Yeah, yeah, and often the what piece what people are complaining about as well. What's the what's the expensive problem that someone's complaining about that you could take away? Where does so obviously that that feels like its own beast that's taken shape and all the other businesses that you've done. Where did the podcasting fit in? Where did you think I want to do something in that space? don't have a clue what podcast was. I didn't have a Scooby, honestly, 2020.

58:15 And that's when we lost the festival in 2020. And that was the time when we were like...

58:23 I'll do a bit of insight into this so you can a bit of a better picture. 2016 to 2020, I had a mini retirement. My boy was very young. My boy and my wife, we were travelling, going to loads of festivals, skiing, holidaying, da-da-da-da. And I had a brilliant team in place, a management team. I had team of seven or eight running the show at the office. I'm never at the office.

58:53 In fact, in the office, we've got beautiful offices, in the office, when we first moved there, they did these see-through planes of glass while I was in my own office, that the staff could see you in your own office. And when we moved in there, we bought this big Mac computer.

59:10 My missus bought these silver filing things, a filing cabinet, a silver bin. I put up a framed West Ham shirt in the back, a framed England Rugby World Cup wedding shirt at the back. And I'd go into my office and I'd sit there and go, I feel lost. One, I know how to use the computer. Two, I was just on my mobile. was thinking, what is this all about, this office thing? I did have a life, I really uncomfortable. Anyway, we pulled all that down. I just worked from home on my mobile.

59:39 because I trust my team. I thought it was an interesting point because I haven't mentioned that before, but I felt really lost. I had this big screen, Apple it was. I turned it on, was like, what would I go to? typed in West Ham, typed in BBC Sport, I typed in Sky Sports, I didn't know what else to look for, you know what mean? So yeah, the question, 2020 podcast. So 2016 to 2020, we were off traveling, and as an entrepreneur, I'm constantly thinking of new businesses, new ideas. doesn't matter where I am.

01:00:09 You could be going for a pee, you could be having a swim, you could be in the shower, you could be boxing, you could be doing whatever your mind is constantly thinking of. What's the new thing? What's the new thing? What's the new thing? And in that period, I was getting itchy feet. There's so much travelling you can do and so much long lunches you can do with your mates and having a laugh.

01:00:30 And then I was like, 2020 come along, pandemic comes along. Hallelujah. I'm getting back into business now. I'm coming back into the business and I'm to think of new businesses. So for the first two months, I was on the computer every night at home.

01:00:47 single digit type people. I was like, new business to set up, I need a new business. What kind of thing? was searching for everything. Searching 18 hours a day. I asked my wife, she was like, are you still in there? I'm gonna find something, I'll create something, watch this place. Anyway, the idea of a podcast come up and the idea of creating an online events course come up and they're the two businesses that we launched in the pandemic.

01:01:09 And you went for Eventful Lives. What was the thought behind that? The original podcast name was called Eventful Entrepreneur. And it was, I've lived an eventful life and I'm an entrepreneur. I was thinking I could chat to other people who lived eventful lives who are entrepreneurs.

01:01:30 And after two years, we changed the name to Eventful Lives, because it opened up a whole new world, because all of a sudden, Eventful Entrepreneur was getting all sorts of characters on the podcast, as you've seen. And some of them didn't fit into the entrepreneur part of it, so we created Eventful Lives and it just blown up. Was there anything new that you learned from doing that?

01:01:55 as an endeavor that you didn't know before from the other things that you'd done? I didn't have a clue what I was doing. Same as everything. But I knew that I had belief that I'd work it out and just work it out. good with people. Bringing up my pals who were faces at the time, if they were celebrities or whether they were...

01:02:14 in the criminal underworld, reformed criminal underworld. Whether they were in the SAS, whether they were a billionaire, whether they're the owner of Reebok, just everyone. was like, guys, I'm doing this new thing called a podcast, your fans coming on. We gotta remember, everyone was bored at that time. were like, yeah, Dodge, wicked, I'm in. I was like, so then we just launched it. And what I learned in business is that business takes time. Business takes a long time. So I didn't look at any,

01:02:44 any metrics whatsoever for the first two years. I didn't look, I didn't care. I knew it would be one download, one watch, I didn't care. So we did that for two years on Apple and Spotify. And then it was like, why are you not on YouTube, Dodge? I was like, well, I haven't really thought about it. I'm just enjoying chatting to people and doing it, being consistent every single week, every Wednesday, I'd put an episode, yeah.

01:03:06 And I was really enjoying it having great chats then we went on to YouTube and Dylan sorry Josh who come on board as our producer who you met a minute ago Gen Z 21 years old. He's like you need to go on YouTube dodge. You need to get putting this on on Instagram. You need to be girls

01:03:25 Let's go for it, mate. So he's come in and he's taken it to a whole new level by opening us up to this whole new world. there like a moment when you look back and you're like, that was kind of where it caught a bit of like momentum? Yeah. Well, the reputation after two years of Monopoly and Spotify, I knew it was growing. I knew in business you have to be really consistent. You have to be really curious. Yeah. You have to be aggressively patient.

01:03:55 And that's something that don't get confused with aggressively patient with urgency. You have to be freaking urgent. No one talks about urgency. And I love urgency. So if I've got something to do today, I'm gonna do it today, I'm doing it tomorrow. If I come up with an idea, I'm gonna act upon it today, I'm doing it tomorrow, I ain't waiting for a week. That's urgency. Aggressively patient in business as an entrepreneur is you know, I know this is gonna take time. I know if you break even in three years, you're really successful in business. Lots of people don't break even until five years.

01:04:25 and 90 % of businesses fail. And only 3 % of businesses get past 10 years. the stats are going against you, anyone setting up a business, the stats are totally against you. And then you've got a terrible tax system, and then you've got the VAT, and then you're getting stung for employment tax, you're getting stung for everything. So to set up a business here and a successful one, you've to be bloody good at what you do. And we've taken no investment.

01:04:55 just want to add that in because everyone's talking about VC money, capitalists. I've seen young kids have got an idea that they're celebrating getting venture capitalists money about setting up a business, but they haven't even run their business yet. That's the start. That's the start. Just to let you know, anyone who's saying VC money, they want their weight in blood. You're cuffed. You're cuffed. They want the, they're going to work you to the bone because they've invested their money into you running your business. Don't think that you're coming out with

01:05:24 You're gonna be a millionaire. You're gonna take a long time to be a millionaire, mate. I've heard horror stories, like we've worked with clients like that. I've heard horror stories about that. I've heard horror stories of friends of mine who are wealthy people and sold out and they're locked in the business for three to five years with a dangly carrot. They've gone from running their business and becoming super successful, total autonomy over their time, to then selling out.

01:05:51 to then being tied down by people in suits looking at the bottom line, putting them under pressure to take it from a 10 million pound business to 100 million pound, whatever sums you're talking about. So I've seen people cave in, I've seen people going, you know what, you can have your shares back, you can do one, I'm off. You know, so.

01:06:08 I think it's a really dangerous game. Me too. think it's a super dangerous game. think especially if you're passionate as well because it becomes less about like you were saying before about the problem that you solve. It becomes less about I started out to solve this problem more about how do I solve the problem for this VC on my back. I'm more bothered about him than I am about the customer that I'm trying to solve this problem for. totally forget wake up and you'll get bugged. Yeah. I haven't taken any VC money. I've got people wanting to buy our businesses and made some beautiful offers but what is enough?

01:06:37 That's another thing no one talks about. What's enough? Another thing I ask lot people is my pals, are you happy? They go, yeah, of I'm happy. No, no, no, but are you happy? Everyone's got to think then. second time you ask that question, are you happy? People go, that's a question. Am I happy?

01:06:59 No one talks about this because everyone on the front wants to be seen that you're either super successful and you're really happy. To get that two combos is very rare. It's very rare. But the question I always say, what is enough? I know what's enough.

01:07:21 because I run lifestyle businesses and I love lifestyle businesses. But then there's people building empires and I have got no interest in building an empire. I've got no interest of having one singular business with more than 12 staff in. Because if you go over 12 staff, you're gonna get into some problems. You're getting into problems with gossip, hierarchy.

01:07:48 people in your team taking sides, the side. The original people who were with you are complaining that the new people weren't there when the vibe was really good. The new people coming in are looking at your original people again. They're not qualified for this job anymore. So you're having this massive split, you know, and I've seen it. Anyone with 13 to 30 staff.

01:08:16 They're too big to be small and they're too small to be big. And in that period there, that's where a lot of businesses really find it hard and go bust. And I don't want anything to go, that's like the deep Atlantic ocean for me. If you're going into that, I like the lifestyle business where you've got you, an operations person, marketing person, someone looking after the books.

01:08:43 someone designing. Do you know what mean? I like that vibe. Everyone's an expert in their field. Everyone's good. Everyone's good. They don't have to be an expert where you've brought them on board because they are an expert. I like bringing people on board because I like them and I know they're grafters and they're honorable and they got the right character. They're learning as they go along, but I let them know that I'm learning as I go along.

01:09:07 your learnings go along, none of us know it, so then straight away you've broken the ice. Because a lot of people who go into jobs go, I've got to be seen, I know everything. And as soon as you give someone that empowerment, that you don't have to know everything, but go and learn it. Straight away you've broken the ice to this wonderful vibe. know, so lifestyle business for me, beautiful. There's a sweet spot. But to get to that lifestyle business might take you three or five years.

01:09:35 The idea starts here. We're all excited. Boy, it's a good idea. Come on, let's do the idea. We'll get excited. First thing to do is go and get a designer, knock up a logo. Is the website still available? The .com? No, it's been taken. .co.uk, .co, we'll have one of them. And that's the excitement that I go for when creating a new business. I love all that. That's the best bit. And then doing all your homework is the best bit. Who are our competitors? How much they charging? How they promoting?

01:10:02 phone up under different names. Every day, hello, how much you charge for that, how many customers you got? Because people on the other line will give you the answers you need to know for your new business. You'll also find if their customer services, is what it is out of 10. Then you go on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn and see how well they're good at promoting. You're getting all your answers. You know, but it takes that period there that investment in there. If you can break even at three years, you've got a really successful business. I call it the thousand day mark.

01:10:31 You know, if you can get through to that thousand day mark and break even, know you're doing really well. Not many do that. Then you go to the five year mark, but you've got to a bigger picture. You have to have a bigger picture and you've got to be fully committed because you can't play around at business. You can't, otherwise you're going to come unstuck. Mentally, physically, emotionally. Emotionally is the biggest one. You're going to be emotionally in trouble.

01:11:01 Then it will affect your mental state because you think you're laying there at night, two in the morning, fucking money, how much money I've got to lay out, how much money I've got to pay, how much money got to pay, much I've got to pay, oh my God, that money going to come in? Oh, the world's going to sit up a moment, why are people spending going down? Am I going to be able to pay the office? And then physically. Because what happens is you'll want to drink more. We all drink on a Tuesday night having a bottle of red wine, where normally you would just have a glass or half a bottle of red wine. Then you're grafting so hard you haven't got time for the gym.

01:11:31 Then you're eating on the run, having those crappy meals at Tesco's for free pound, where you got a crap sandwich, a bag of crisps and a sugary drink. And then you're feeling this horrible spiral, you don't wanna go to the gym because you're knackered. And then you say your excuses to your mates are, I'm out setting my powers, why are you not keeping fit and healthy, mate? I know you're under pressure. I ain't got time. Give me your phone. How much you've been scrolling through? So you're telling me you ain't got time to go and do a 40 minute sesh?

01:11:59 but you've been on Instagram for two hours, Facebook for an hour and half, YouTube for an hour, and you've been on LinkedIn for 45 minutes and you ain't got time to go and do a gym sesh. Hold on, let's get some priorities right here. People don't talk about this. They don't talk about it because everyone wants to be the swan. It's flapping all beautiful but your legs going like fucking. And I'm just talking from experience as well.

01:12:28 You know, isn't, oh God, everyone should be doing what we do. I'm talking from experience, I've been through this. So I know what people are going through, you know? But you have to look after your body. You have to have control of what you put in your mouth. You know, you have to have a look at the sugar content because it's affecting a lot of people. You know, sugar is more addictive than cocaine. Oh yeah. You know, and...

01:12:54 coming from a But sugar is more addictive than cocaine, know, like, and that's not a good place to be because sugar is hidden in everything. I did a great podcast the other day with a wonderful lady called Layla Gordon. And we did an hour and if you're listening out there, go and have a listen.

01:13:09 Leila Gordon, the names who talk about how addictive sugar is and the effect it's having on people's minds and physical states. You if you're growing a belly, you're not training, you're eating sugar. Yeah, that's it. Stop eating sugar and start moving. So you might have seen at the end, it cut off just before we reached the pinnacle of the conversation. There was a few technical errors, but if you're looking for the extended version, you can find that on Spotify and Apple Music. I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Dodgewood all today.