00:01 So today we are joined by an incredible entrepreneur. He's a business owner to a variety of different ventures from ice cream shops to farms. He's an author, public speaker, content creator, coach, and much, much more. guest today excels in the world of business and I'm looking forward to him sharing his pearls of wisdom with us today. It's James Sinclair. How are you James? Hello. Nice to be with you, Jack. No worries. It's good to be with you. So thank you for coming on the podcast. So start the way we always do.

00:31 Who are you and what problem do you solve? Oh, good. I think I solve lots of problems. I'm a business owner. I own a chain of day nurseries, couple of farm attractions. We've got a food services business. We make ice cream. We are one of the oldest ice cream companies in the country. We make teddy bears and arts and crafts for kids. We employ a thousand people. We've been going nearly two decades now.

01:01 And we love what we do. And I'm very passionate about helping entrepreneurs and business owners grow their business. And I make loads of content on YouTube and my podcast. I wrote some books. That's just a brief summary of the repertoire of stuff I get up to. Beautiful. So not only are you coaching entrepreneurs on their journey, we're looking at problems you solve. could be five-year-old little Sally that's walking in and getting an ice cream and walking out with a Teddy. So there's a

01:28 a range of demographics there in terms of the problems you solve. Okay. So how did you get started? Obviously it's probably been a bit of a journey. Yeah. I started when I was 15 doing kids parties. I was a kid's entertainer, magician. Um, I built an entertainment business up, um, as a sole trader, you like, stopping time for money, but I was getting good money for that time. Um, I took that money and started buying buy to let properties, um, and invested into building an entertainment agency.

01:58 Um, and doing prop higher and bouncy castle hire. Um, and I just realized that had a me too business. Um, and so then I'm scaled up and open my own venues that we went into them, the annual adventure parks and the, um, the day nurseries and the bigger businesses from there on. Had you always been entrepreneurial? there like a switch that where that happened? Yeah, think so. Yeah. I was definitely the kid selling sweets at school. Uh,

02:28 Yeah, I've, I've always had an IFA business in entrepreneurship, but only really in the sectors that I'm most interested in. So I'm really interested in making great content. I'm really interested in entertainment and hospitality, leisure, and stuff around the family space and commercial property. I like all of that. So as long as I, it fires my passion up and it's a good business model, then

02:55 Then I want to get involved. Yeah. And I want to do more. Okay. And you said that me too. So I know what you mean by that. I've watched a lot of your content. What for the people that might be listening that don't know what, does that mean? Low barrier to entry me to businesses are probably where lots of people start on their entrepreneurial journey, but you want to get out of it. Um, because.

03:25 what you want some high barrier to entry stuff around you to protect you so that if you have in a period of relaxation, if you like, if you're going away for fortnight, you don't have to worry about the market swallowing you up. Now, what do I mean by that? Let's give a real example. So a me too business would have been my first business of family entertainment, bouncy castle, higher business. know, anyone with £5,000 can set up and be in competition with us. They might not be as good as us, but they will take a slice of the pie.

03:55 And I just thought, if I open my own venues, I've got my own locations where you need half a million set up. It's less me too. It's more me. It's still me too. It's still low barrier to entry. And then I think, well, if I open a theme park, I need 20 million pounds. I need planning permission. need, you know, stuff that makes it difficult for people to set up in competition with you. So I've always liked the idea of trying to build my business to be as high barrier to entry as possible. That's why I like regulated businesses. Why I got into childcare.

04:24 because of stead regulation scares people about getting involved in a market. And I like all that. Now I like regulated businesses because they protect you from being so me too. hopefully I've given a good explanation of it. That was a brilliant. So you see where you see the problems that other people might see and they run away and then you run towards them like a cow in the storm, which sounds like as long as it's in the sector that

04:48 that particularly integrates the rest of our business. Yeah. We're big people's, well, I call it folding into existing empire. We don't just go off and set up stuff that one of our existing businesses cannot be served or serve the other thing that we're going to buy. So we bought the Rossi ice cream company. We were spending quarter of a million pounds a year on ice cream. We now keep that revenue within the business. That cashflow stays within the business. Um, and we can give Rossi more revenue. Um, and

05:17 pass it on and build it around other businesses on the back of our existing business. And so we always want to make sure that vertical integration is part of what we do. Interesting. So there's a lot of logical decisions in the background. It's not just, right. Okay. You've not woke up one day and said, I'm going to go and buy an ice cream shop. Okay. So you started off as an entertainer. So I'm really interested in this. So how did you enhance your sales skills?

05:45 And maybe what crossover have you seen from your skills in maybe performing to selling? Is there any? I think if you are confident and passionate about products and can stand up in front of people and convey a message, then you're always going to be able to sell ideas and products and services. I've always, you know, if you look at all my businesses, all stuff that I'm really interested in. So it's very easy to sell stuff that you're passionate about.

06:14 But, know, I think all entrepreneurs and business owners, you know, one of the top skills for them to stay in the game is to be good at selling and conveying a message. know, only 5 % of businesses make it past being 10 years old. So think that's one of the skill sets of the successful is being able to sell. And what did you do? Because obviously we work in sales and a lot of the people that listen to this podcast are people that might be new to sales roles or sales leaders. So

06:41 What did you do specifically to enhance those skills and get better? Or was it a bit of a natural talent? I'm a confident chap. think that I have no problem standing in front of people and talking and speaking. Once you've got the confidence and then you, you know, the I's and cross the T's and finesse the skill set over a period of time. I mean, I, you know, I'm very happy to sell.

07:11 products and services of the businesses that I'm passionate about. Um, you know, and I've always understood that if there was a gap in the market and we can do it better, why wouldn't someone buy from us? We're better than, uh, than our competitors. So come and, come and check us out. And I convey that message. Hopefully quite, quite, um, quite well. Um, personally, I mean, I'm

07:37 I'm an okay salesperson, but I think probably I'm a better marketeer. And I think if you're really good at marketing, especially content marketing, your sales become very easy. Um, and that's why I spend a lot of time on writing books, doing podcasts, making videos, because that gets more people to know about us. And then they're predetermined that this one makes sales very easy. In my opinion is when you've got predetermination. So

08:00 people wanting to buy a pair of Nikes, they are going into the shop predetermined to buy Nikes over added us over new balance or whatever it is that that predeterminations in their mindset. And then you're really just assisting the sale to be made if you're working in that shop. In terms of being a salesperson from a cold audience, I just, I think that's very difficult. And I know there are people that do that well.

08:28 just, I just think you just have a much better life by doing really good marketing and, you know, showing what pain you can solve and then getting those people over the line into a customer. It's just such a better way of doing things. And I agree. Selling from cold is, is very hard. That's predominantly what we do. We, we focus on cold calling in the, in the same way, in the same way that I cold called you out the blue to get you on this podcast. It is a hard game. think.

08:57 if you can learn some of the skills that come with it. One of the biggest skills I think when it comes to especially selling cold is mindset. So you've obviously got a very strong mindset to have built what you built. But with the economy, the risk of entrepreneurship and the highs and lows of sales and business, what have you done over time and what do you do to make sure that you've always got the strongest mindset possible?

09:25 You know, have a strong mindset business, want to make sure the fundamentals of your business is strong so that your mind doesn't panic. You know, it's very hard, know, the odds are stacked against you. The facts don't lie. The data doesn't lie. Most people fail in business. The people that succeed in business, yeah, they have a positive mindset, but they're passionate about the thing they do and they have a good business model.

09:50 And if you look at the model of a business is one that has a hungry audience that ready to buy straight away. And if you've got a hungry audience, they're ready to buy straight away. It's much easier to have a positive mindset because you've got customers that want to do, they want to transact, they want to buy from you. And if you keep getting the sales coming in, it's very easy then to continue to have that positive mindset. No sales, no cashflow. My God, you're going to get a negative mindset very quickly. So you want to choose a really good model.

10:19 that has a volume of sales hungry audience. There's volume in it. There's margin. If you've got good margin in your business, you're allowed to invest in research and development, invest in good team, invest in your customers by what I call customer cuddles, be able to reward surprise and delight. Your customers like Disney do like Apple do like if you traveled first class or upper class to see and they're giving you all these customer cuddles all the time, creating huge brand loyalty. It's so much more enjoyable to be in that space than in the

10:47 scale and commoditize space. And think a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners try and do commoditize businesses and compete with supermarkets and the likes of Amazon. They've got huge deep pockets. And I always think that SME business owners that are generating up to 50 million pounds worth of revenue should be in the experience margin led space so that they, um, they can weather storms and they've got good strong enough margin to be able to reinvest back into their business and actually pay themselves. I think a lot of business owners.

11:17 um, pay themselves hardly anything and just put hours and hours into a business because the model isn't there. They're passionate about it, but the model is just flawed and therefore they don't have profitability on their side, which means that their mindset has just shrunk. So we've got to have volume. We've got to have margin. We've got to be able to be in a business where we can control overhead. Um, if you, my business to a degree, that's quite difficult now, you know, we have a, sometimes a million pound payroll a month. So we've got to make sure that we've continually got cash.

11:46 coming in. But one of the things that our business does have is this another way of keeping your mindset good. If you think volume of sales, hungry audience, but also businesses where people transact with you four times in quick succession is some of the strongest types of businesses that I've come across. So if you think about a supermarket, most people are quite habitual to the supermarkets they use. They go to the supermarket on a Monday, then they go on the Wednesday and they might go in on a Saturday and then the next Tuesday.

12:13 They go in there very regular like your local corner shop. You go there four times in quick succession, creating habits. Therefore you're very loyal to that business. Unless fickle, think about hospitality and leisure in the business is that I trade through people don't code to the zoo four times in two weeks. They just don't do it. So you're always competing with other hospitality and leisure that are competing for that pound. That's why I like childcare. You come to us on a Monday, see on Tuesday, see on Wednesday, see on Thursday, building rapport with the customer.

12:42 building habits with the customer. Therefore it becomes a really strong and lovely business like an insurance brokerage or like your mortgage provider. You're paying your mortgage payment each month. Therefore you don't just change banks on a whim. You don't just change doctors or you don't just change Netflix on a whim. You're using it four times in quick succession, creating habits, then loyalty. Because of those things, you always have a positive mindset about your business because predictable cash flow.

13:11 Um, is what keeps you sane and keeps your head above water and therefore keeping you have a positive mindset. If you start from zero each month, it becomes very difficult. I agree. Knowing that it's going to be all right. It's like that thing when they talk about building a house, you've got the confidence because of the cash flows there and like you, you constantly bring in sales. It's like, well, I know that this is repeatable. Obviously I can keep a positive mindset because the, the, the facts are there. I call it the evidence shelf. So it's like.

13:40 Right. Okay. This is something that's happened over the last 12 months, every month, and it's always okay. So I'm going to put it on the evidence shelf. So next time a little bit of worry or a niggle might slip in. Okay. Well then I'm going to take that off the shelf and say, well, actually there's nothing to be worried about. Yeah. So we work in sales. So we regularly talk about kind of the revenue driving activity. So rather than fitting your diary with pointless menial tasks. So

14:07 When you first started, what was some of the most important revenue driving tasks and how do you avoid getting bogged down by the stuff that doesn't really matter? I've never got involved in that. I employed a PA when I was 17 years old. And that was it, bank. Anything menial, it's off the table. Just will not do it. I spend 80 % of my time on revenue generating tasks, always have. Yeah, never done it. So I

14:36 I just can't really comment because, you know, I saw that I was doing low value tasks on day one, day two, get someone to do your admin boom, done. So I know that you did a piece of content about this. So why did most people fail with that then? Why are people like worrying about that and then doing that? people are scared of employing people. They're scared of having the commitment of the salaries. Why do people want to be employed is because there's an insurance policy there that you're going to get paid every single month.

15:06 And that makes you feel safe and comforted. Entrepreneurs are a strange bunch, especially the super successful ones. They, they think very differently to most. And I'm not saying that's right. You know, I do think I'm a little bit weird. No. Yeah. I'm very happy to personally guarantee millions of pounds, put my house on the line, um, give security. I'm very happy to do any of that sort of stuff. Not everyone is. But it's the risk and rewards. You've taken the risks over your career.

15:35 and the rewards of, retention. Speaking on that, just think, I think it's a risk not to employ people. think it's stupid to, um, outsource everything. think it's stupid to not, you know, use contractors because when you come to retirement and you're going to sell your business, are you trying to sell a profitable job or a profitable business? And you want to build a, you know, if I go and buy a business, I want to meet the management team and the team.

16:05 And if the team and the management team isn't there, I devalue it. don't want to buy them thinking across and just by the job here. I want to buy the employees. want to buy the infrastructure. I want to buy all of that. And most people do everything they can to avoid that. Um, and then they're not building an investment and all of the, big sales and the big businesses that are bought and sold is because of the strength of the management team that has been built. It is the most valuable asset of a business. If it's all outsourced, it's a bit naff, isn't it?

16:35 Yeah, I, yeah, I tend to agree. Obviously you want to grow something that you can actually say, well, this is mine. And then get to a point where you can step away, go on holiday for two weeks and then whatever it is. then the primary focus is you should be building a business to sell, even if you have no intention of selling it. Cause that discipline makes you build something better. Yeah, I agree. So looking at your, know that you referred to yourself there as a little bit weird.

17:01 So what other attributes do you think that you have that you might have seen in other entrepreneurs that might stick out that is kind of against the norm and not the normal person?

17:17 In master delegators, usually entrepreneurs are very good at getting rid of tasks.

17:28 Taking calculated risks, relationships with people and understanding that they're happy to employ people that are better than them at stuff. Not people struggle with that. Great entrepreneurs usually are prepared to be living a very frugal lifestyle for years and years while the business and the employees earn more. A lot of people can't.

17:57 cope with that. They can't cope that they might be paying someone instead of themselves for a good number of years. I've done that and I know a lot of people would struggle with that mindset. The employees are earning more than you. You and you're taking all the loans on and you're doing all the risk and yeah, know, leaders eat last in my opinion. A lot of people have a, you know, have a mental block with that because

18:25 I'm not building a profitable job. I'm building a, you know, you go through three stages, solo entrepreneur, investor, but if you are a super successful entrepreneur, you're building an investment that someone else wants to buy. Um, and so I just see as our employees as great investments in the business.

18:46 Um, and, then these are all strange things to think because you know, you might have 75 Christmases and 75 summers in your lifetime. And, know, you're, carving out a big chunk of that to build a business that. Other than fulfill your own lifestyle. And yeah, you put a lot of hours in and you're able to cope with. Extresses cause it's really hard. It's very hard, know, funding everything, especially if you're in businesses like mine, capital intensive businesses.

19:16 buying carousels and dinosaur parks and building day nurseries and big properties and taking millions of pounds worth of loans. Not for everyone. That makes you strange because it's I'll say that is unusual.

19:34 It is. You said something there, like obviously about the 75 summers and 75 Christmases. don't know if you can see it. I've got a massive memento mori sign above my head, which means remember you'll die. And I think it's I always talk about death and I'm a big lover of kind of talking about mortality because it's you kind of said it there. It will take a big chunk of your life. But when you're sat on that death bed, I think it's more of a case of like, well, do I set up this or do I not? Do I take that risk or do I not? But actually.

20:03 One day you won't get to make a choice. So it's not about what, what the answer is. It's, it's, it's kind of like one day the one being, you know, for me is I really genuinely believe that you spend most of your time with the people you work with. So regardless, I think about my life, could just own commercial property and make a lot of money and have no stress. I know how to do it, but I love the people I work with and I enjoy seeing them and

20:34 Uh, and I like the thought of building something driven by the thought of creating and doing, um, and that, that, that drives me. I like building ice cream factories and, know, making it possible. So, um, yeah, that's important to me. And these are all, you know, rather than having 10 fancy cars and more holidays and, you know, I'm not being my family and stuff, but I just, I want to be.

21:04 fulfilled in what I'm doing. want to be hungry that I'm making a difference. And these are all traits of entrepreneurial people that I've met. They're just the super successful ones, a very thick skinned and

21:21 have hyper focus on the things that really matter and don't mess around wasting time on stuff that doesn't interest them. They have brains that work faster than normal in many ways. Now they're on to the next subject and they're building teams around them to look after the detail, but they might look at the micro details. Very strange, you know.

21:48 very strange set of people that are very successful that I've come across. And do you think there'll be a time where you get to a point where you say, I've done enough now, that's enough for me.

22:06 No, no, I'm thinking about friend of mine is 65 and another one that's 73. They're carrying on. There's no tomorrow. They're seriously entrepreneurial people. know, why is Richard Branson doing space tourism at 76 years old or whatever he is not doing it to make any more money. He's just very driven individual. Um, and he, you know, he needs that, that drive and,

22:36 I just want to keep going as long as I'm enjoying it. If I feel like I've lost my hunger for something, then we might come out certain sectors, but you know what? I've got a brain that's highly active and I have to do stuff to satisfy. we've kind of stumbled into this quite nicely. So I want to talk about hunger. So I want to hit you with a two part question. So in one of your videos, you talk about hunger and procrastination. So why do you think people

23:04 Don't get things done and don't have that hunger. And where did your hunger come from?

23:15 Um.

23:17 think more.

23:21 Good entrepreneurial people, you know, quite ego driven and there's something in their DNA that drives them, whether it's past childhood. They're just wired up a bit differently. There's something about them. Why do people procrastinate? Why do some people not?

23:44 great entrepreneurs are very vision led like them. Don't really see the challenges because they are thinking faster than one may.

24:00 really interesting why the people progress to me

24:09 to know more people.

24:13 environment has a big part to play if they're surrounded by positive people that are driving them forward. I think if you don't have that. But then I know people that are in a terrible environment and they've got out of it and then they just gone to the moon. But I definitely think you've got to you you become the average of the five people you spend most of your time with. So if you're surrounded by great people, there's a good chance that you're going to become greater. If you're surrounded by mood hoovers, there's a good chance you'll be a mood hoover.

24:40 But entrepreneurs get out of bad environments. The ones that I'm, you know, weren't particularly, I left home very young. wasn't particularly happy with that environment. So I got out and was on my own.

24:52 Cause yeah, I think you said it there, like the, people you spend that, cause I I'll be with kind of acquaintances and things like, come on, like you can, you can do anything you've got with this one life. don't you kind of get up? So maybe it's It's lack of hunger. You know, if you've got to be hungry for the thing that you're doing, that hunger's not there. Then procrastination will set in.

25:20 So you spoke about like environment and childhood and all these different things. At what point did you realize that you had that hunger? Where did that come from? Where's the James that we know now? Who's he and why?

25:38 Um... Um...

25:45 I know why I'm a I just, you know, I suppose a lot, lost my mom very young and I had to get out and do what I needed to do and build something. I'm very driven.

26:00 because I want to prove that I can do it. I want to do the impossible, not the possible. I want to be building so that I've got security for myself and for my family. Although I'm probably well past that stage now.

26:23 What do I do here? just, there's something inside me that drives me more than most, you know? Like I say, I think I'm wired up differently and I'm, you know, I don't need to do more, but I feel like I haven't done enough. I'm from the outside, I a of people don't even go, right, he's got a business that does 30 million in sales a year. He's got millions of pounds worth of properties.

26:51 He's built multiple businesses and just feel like haven't even scratched the surface. And I'm disappointed in what I've achieved so far, even now. That's really interesting because you said they're you said they're disappointed in what you've done and you want to prove it, but you've from an outsider's point of view, like the accolades and the success and the achievement is, is, it's incredible. So it's like the, the proof is in the pudding.

27:20 from an outsider's point of view, you've done it. So I guess it goes back to that thing because it's that battle with entrepreneurs that they're constantly wanting more. it's like, when do you think the proof will be there? Well, you won't be disappointed in what you've done.

27:37 Um.

27:42 I don't think it'll ever be there. I think it'll be like it to none done.

27:49 Are you happy? Yeah. Overall, yes. Yeah. I've got amazing children, amazing team. I love my businesses. yeah. Overall, I'm like the bad days. have, you know, someone do us over or overall. Yeah. I love what I do. I just, you know, I think I'm, you know, I haven't done enough. I think I could have, you know, had a lot more and done a lot more and

28:19 And we're just, is this the way I am? Maybe I've should have taken a few more risks, which I think plus the big one. More, more. But yeah, I I could have, you know, calculated not, not enough, you know, good stuff, you know, I'll think why couldn't I've made that happen? Why could I have not got that over the line? Um, you know, why is my YouTube channel not got a million subscribers? It's only got 25,000, you know, why?

28:47 Can I not make better videos? Why? Um, why can I have not got that over the line done that, you know, it's difficult, you know, and, and, and one of my downfalls is, know, I'm, I suppose I'm obsessed with control and ownership, although I'm very good at delegating. I've never wanted venture capitalists and shareholders. And so that's probably slowed me down a bit because I could have gone into London and got millions of pounds worth of VC funding.

29:15 you know, catapult the size of my business, but I'm not doing it all with my own cash and bank debt. that's much slower to grow.

29:26 What do you... looking back on everything that you've done so far... do you think is the biggest mistake you've made?

29:37 No barrier to entry businesses for too long holding on to things that I can't scout.

29:46 I really feel like I've huge errors and the errors that I have made have helped me formulate a formula to not make sure like I'm at South per stretch limousine company, stupid idea, print scale it. had a couple of party shops, know, people only buy from you once a year. You know, I've learned all these things. Sometimes when I've slightly gone out of my lane, but I've never had anything that's

30:16 pull me right down. Sometimes I've done a business deal with someone recently last year and I had a feeling that they were a bit of a shady character and it's come out that they was and I shouldn't have done it and I should have listened to my gut instinct. But again, it hasn't. It's just made me lose my lunch but not lose my house. So I want to take some of those risks.

30:45 keeps me sane and doesn't think I'm a superhero that just succeeds at everything.

30:51 I agree. And one of the biggest things is it's so funny that your guts telling you that and then you, still choose to go against it. And it's like, what, what, what made you, guess, go against your gut at that position? Cause I wanted to buy the business. I wanted to do the deal because it would, it made him right fit for us. um, I just had a feeling that it's much

31:19 Yeah, I just have a feeling, you know, I wasn't a strongish feeling and I've had those feelings before and I've been proved wrong. So, you know, this isn't a, you know, direct data and science, you know, I thought, Oh, I'm not sure about this. And I've got it over the line and it was, it was one of the best things I've ever done. You know, so that that's just life, isn't it? You know, you're not right all the time. Yeah. Risk and reward. Okay. And before you were kind of 80 years old, although I don't see you.

31:47 slowing down anytime soon and sitting on a yacht and just looking back. But say, so we fast forward to the future and you've got 24 hours left and you look back on your time now from recording this podcast to the rest of the rest of your life. What, what, what more do you want to achieve?

32:10 want my children to like me and think that I've done a good job with them. That would be up there. I want to make great human beings. and I want my, what Natalie, my partner to think, oh yeah, and this was, had a good family as much as, um, I built all this successful business stuff. You know, what I love about my businesses is on the whole, are businesses that make people smile and happy and

32:37 make a difference. Our childcare businesses literally help kids with the first steps of their lives. People that come to our ice cream parlor literally are multi-generational families having a laugh and a joke. People that come to Marsh Farm for great days out and building family memories. People that buy our teddy bears that have made them and kids are taking them to bed and cuddling them overnight. People that buy our arts and crafts and our slime making kits are, you know, creative. People that watch our

33:06 shows or come to our Father Christmas experience or making lifelong memories and that I'm very, very happy about. That's a very lovely answer, James. Not once during this podcast have you come across as like flashy or in it for the money or the kind of even lesser the accolade is more you are making it different and from your answer there you're making a difference in your own pool.

33:36 with your own family, that was the first answer. But then also it's the rippling effect. And I'm a big lover of this because what you're creating is children will look back in 50, 100 years time and they'll look back on their first memory and that will be sat in an ice cream shop, eating strawberry ice cream or whatever. And these memories that you will have had some impact and some effect there. Beautiful. I think that's a

34:05 a really lovely place to leave it, James. Thank you for being so honest and open about it. And I think I look up to you. think you do some amazing things in this space. And for a lot of people that listen that are entrepreneurs or wanting to make that step, I think it is inspirational. So for anybody that's listening to this, obviously, if they want to go to one of your farms, I'm sure they'll be able to find it on your WhatsApp. They want to work with you and get better.

34:34 Where should they go and what should they do? Watch me on YouTube, listen to my podcasts, buy my books. I mean, they're all free. If you really like listening to the podcasts and watching the YouTube videos, they're very two different styles of content. The YouTube videos, me like running my businesses and we'd like to do little docu-series of me running everything. The podcast is me coaching business owners on how I would grow their business. I've done like 250 episodes of that now.

35:02 I think we've made nearly 700 YouTube videos. Um, and if you really like that stuff and you want to learn more, then I run a few seminars throughout the year. only a couple of hundred quid a ticket. Um, and, I them in London and, um, uh, at my hotel. Um, so, um, you know, they're the things that I do, uh, but really you can do it all for free. Just listen to the podcast and watch the YouTube channel, James Sinclair poof. shall appear very inspirational.

35:32 Well, keep going, James. I'm excited to watch your journey continue. Thank you. Thanks, Mike. Cheers.